Basically when you do meditation, Mahamudra or anything, you need a lot of information, such as how to start and how to follow. The teaching here [M.B.A.]is Sutra all the time, which is very good. Because you will get the basic knowledge from Sutra, and based on that, you can do meditation of Mahamudra very successfully.
The Buddhisattva practice is very important for Mahamudra practice. Because humans are lucky, but not completely qualified to go into such a great practice like Mahamudra, you need lots of merit to support. If you follow the Buddhisattva practice and the Buddhisattva practice is the way to accumulate lots of merit power, which develops the spiritual fortune, then you can enter into the Mahamudra meditation.
Mahamudra Meditation is actually Sambhogakaya Buddha's teaching in Sambhogakaya Land. All the beings who are half-way enlightened, the great Buddhisattvas, they can participate in the Sambogakaya Land and they receive the teaching there. So this teaching of Mahamudra is not very suitable in the human land. But some of the Buddhisattvas like Nagarjuna, Saraha, they made a strong wish that human can follow the Mahamudra teaching. From their wish power, then human can do it. Like Milarepa, when Milarepa was in the cave and doing meditation, all the hardship he dedicated for the practice, he made wish for the followers. So that's why when he enlightened by the practice his wishes happen for the followers.
So now we followers can achieve the enlightenment what these great siddhas' attained more easier than when they were doing the practice. It needs lots of Buddhisattva wishes from your side (too), you need Buddhisattva vow, then you have to make very, very serious and genuine wishes for the sentient beings that develop the power, that develop the wisdom, that you can absorb the method of Mahamudra.
Two ways of doing this Mahamudra practice. One (way), as I told you, you take the Buddhisattva vow, and then you can start doing Mahamudra meditation. Mahamudra Meditation begins by Mahamudra way of Samatha and Mahamudra way of Vipasyana. Samatha and vipasyana are meditations of all the three yanas in Buddhist. There is a Theravada way of samatha and vipasyana, and the Mahayana way of samatha and vipasyana, and the Mahamudra way of samatha and vipasyana, so you can directly start the samatha practice (of) Mahamudra as the foundation practice and then you can start the Mahamudra Vipasyana.
Another way is similar. Mahamudra meditation mixed with the Vajrayana way, like Tantra, Tantra way, with Yidam deities. They do (practice) like Vajrayogini, Chakrasamvara. In Kagypa we do a lot of Chakrasamvara, Vajrayogini. There is another practice called Mahamudra and Mahaati in Nyingma, Mahamudra and Mahaati mixed with the Yidam. The deity is the Chenrazi, the White Chenrazi.
I recommend, generally, if you do like Vajrayogini and Mahamudra you have to follow a lot of precepts, (which is) not so convenient for every body. The reason is, there are a lot of yoga practices, you have to go into the strict retreat, organized for 3 years plus 3 months and 3 days, and (study) Vajrayana philosophy. Vajrayana philosophy explains a lot about the system of the body. There are two systems. One is the outer system, (which)is right now our physical form. (The other one is) the inner, deeper kind of system that all the Samsara and enlightenment came from. It's called Nadi, and if you follow the yoga with Mahamudra, then you can release all the wrong knots, mistaken knots (on the Nadi). it's not substantially form up Nadi, it's not like that, it's mirage. All these mistaken knots are the causes of Samsara. So you can release all these knots by doing yoga combining Mahamudra. Of course Mahamudra is needed, Mahamudra practice is very, very important, then the yoga and Mahamudra practice combined, then you can release all these wrong knots, and then you can be enlightened. So the figure, if you do (your practice) very strictly, very properly without any mistake, then 3 years-3 months-3 days is the right time according to (that) the knots to be released.
So, without following the yoga (but) directly the mind enters into the Mahamudra, that's the most effective way, more direct than if you followed the yoga and you went to the wrong way. (The way of) directly going into Mahamudra, that's what we call Four Yogas. This yoga is not a physical yoga (but) mentally--the Four Yoga practice of Mahamudra.
If the practitioner is really qualified, meaning (with) strong Buddhisattva motivation and a lot of support from your past good deeds also there. If you do meditation-Four Yogas of Mahamudra meditation, sometimes within few days you can be enlightened. Instant enlightenment means, well, that's of course very unique, for somebody very, very qualified in the past lives and now if you start Mahamudra practice sometimes in a moment you can be enlightened. For example, Milarepa is the greatest Mahamudra meditator, greatest enlightened person, but it took long time for him, because (in) the past his merit deed is lesser than his disciple Gampopa's, his disciple Gampopa has more supports from his (past) merit. Milarepa had to go through a lot of hardship to purify karma, his disciple Gampopa didn't have to go through that, so much easier for Gampopa to be enlightened than his teacher, Milarepa. Tsapa Gyare is the name of one of very great Mahamudra lineage holders in Kagypa. He decided his whole life to be in retreat, not coming out until he got enlightened. He went into the cave. After three days he came out. Until he got enlightened he will be there for whole life, he made that wish, but he came out after three days. Within three days he was enlightened, so he doesn't have to stay there for whole life.
I said the Four-arm Chenrazi is as your Yidam, when you do the Four-arm Chenrazi practice. It is well-packed practice for purification, for developing the compassion, developing the wisdom, developing the merit power. All (of those are) concentrated there plus Samatha. When you do the visualization, visualization is very mysterious but it develops Samatha because (when) your mind focus on the mantra 'OM MA NI PED ME HUNG' you will concentrate a lot on that. And then (because) Mantra is blessed by the Avalokiteshvara, so it has so much power to purify your Karma. So everything is there concentrated and more simple to follow than Vajrayogini. To practise Vajrayogini you have to learn a lot, so Avalokiteshvara (practice) is more simple but the benefit is same. So I recommend (first) Avalokiteshvara practice and then do the Mahamudra. You know it has a lot other limitless methods of power. When you do that, for example, visualization of Avalokiteshvara is the seed of manifesting. When you get enlightened you will help the living beings. To help the living beings you have to have a Nirmanakaya power, (because) if you can not manifest Nirmanakaya then sentient beings can not contact to Buddha, so Buddha (has to) manifest in every different necessary (forms) for sentient beings, then sentient beings can communicate (with him). For example, Buddha Shakyamuni came into this earth as human, that's the Nirmanakaya, so human can contact to Buddha, human can receive Buddha's directions or teachings. So you have to have Nirmanakaya's power that is attained by, you know, (when) you are in meditation of Avalokiteshvara's form, the compassion manifestation. So when you do the visualization, that's the cause that you can manifest like Avalokiteshvara when you are enlightened- the cause is accumulated by that.
In other way, the visualization of Avalokiteshvara's form can eliminate our cause of having all kinds of lives in our illusion. Because we have a lot of ignorance and ignorance caused the negative Karma, negative karma created so much illusions, all illusions in different lives is Samara. That can be eliminated by the meditation of Avalokiteshvara's manifestations. When you visualize in Avalokiteshvara's form, this will eliminate all these karmas and illusions.
After this life ended, your mind will go into Bardo stage, (which) means the periods of time (from your death) until you participate another life. In that time, the kind of habit of mind is taking another form. If you do so much visualization of Avalokiteshvara in this life, in the Bardo then you will go into that (form) , instead of lower realms. Many great practitioners were enlightened in the Bardo stage. This (body) form is obstacle, so some can be enlightened in this (life), some enlightened in Bardo stage, (which) means, like here is an egg , that you are trapped here now, then released when you die. From the cause power of your manifestation of Avalokiteshvara and Mahamudra meditation, all now ripen at that time, so you will manifest yourself in Avalokiteshvara's form and enlightened in Bardo stage. That can happen.
So, I strongly recommend people to do Avalokiteshvara (practice first) and then Mahamudra practice. For example, today, it's is time to introduce to you the practice, but to follow it you need individually to receive instruction in details. Since you received the Abhisheka yesterday of Avalokiteshvara, now you can go on the meditation. Cybele Yang, I gave her the instruction quite a number of times about how to do the Avalokiteshvara practice. She can explain to all of you. The main sequence is like this: first the visualization, then mantra recitation--at that time, lots of visualization you do will develop Samatha power and others as I explained to you (before). Then (comes) 'absorption part' as it's called. At the end, all the manifestation of Avalokiteshvara that you visualized should be absorbed into Dharmakaya, or into the nature of mind. In the nature of mind, nothing exists. You know Madhyamika subject, a very famous subject in Buddhism, explains that neither existing nor not existing. (When) we say 'Yes' and 'Not', 'existing' and 'not existing', both are from our dualistic illusion. If you have 'right' then you have 'left', (same to) 'front' and 'back'. All these duality's were created from your mind. In the nature of mind, nothing is existing. So all the visualization should be absorbed into the nature of mind, there you enter into the Mahamudra meditation at the time. So this sadhana organized, first visualization, then absorption where is how you enter into Mahamudra. When you do visualization you should not have attachment of the form of what you visualized, you should not think substantially existing form. You know manifestation is just mirage, Nirmanakaya is also mirage. Follow the sentient beings, Buddha can manifesting in Sambhogakaya which is following the Buddhisattvas vision. Nymanakaya is following the lucky human beings' vision. So it's just following the vision, oneself there has nothing existing in it. So when you do the visualization, if you attach a form then the practice will not succeed. Holographic is a good example, the visualization is like that. The Avalokiteshvara appearance (is nothing) but made of Holographic, not existing there, but appears very clearly.
Then the absorption part. Absorption means, the image of Avalokiteshvara is absorbed in the nature of mind, then your mind should go directly into the peaceful nature. Mind nature is, you can not describe by shape, you can not size it, you can not say mind is outside of the body or inside of the body, completely empty. Mind nature is empty.
Realizing its nature, (so it is ) full of illusions. For example, karma and illusion are connected within the mind. The tiny mind is concentrated of whole life illusion in it. Very, very tiny part of mind can have the condensed illusion and when it spreads, then (the whole) universe, all kind of things can happen. Until the cause is finished illusion can never finish, it's strongly existing within you. But, when the cause is finished then illusion disappears from your mind. For example, a person is dying now- to us that person is dying, but to him his illusion is changing. He is not dying, (but) actually changing from this illusion to another illusion, then disappearing to us--only the body is left here, that's all.
Our whole life experience of everything can be condensed in the tiny part of the mind, (which is) the cause. But that mind does not exist, is sizeless- it does not exist at all. So when we could realize the nature of mind, the enlightenment is within mind, the enlightenment is real nature of your mind. Samsara means whatever we see now is not the real nature of our mind , understand? Real nature of our mind is enlightenment, but then unfortunately the living being is not in the realization of it's nature; instead, they are occupied by their own illusion.
But easy to say, not easy to let it happen. So at beginning time, you have to follow the method properly. So Samatha is really very important. Samatha is like space, the Vipasyana, the Mahamudra is like Sun. If it is spacious, then light is full. So samatha is like space, no blockage here. When you have strong samatha then easily the Mahamudra can be developed more spontaneous. It is method to tame your mind, your present mind. The habit is so strong, full of confusion there. Our mind is very busy, non-stop thinking, and you can not control it. So you should calm down, you should make it calm and peaceful and tame it. The main thing is how to tame, it depends on that.
When mind became peaceful, it is not connected to the enlightenment (yet), great peace and joy are there. That's the result of Samatha practice, but not the result of Vipasyana, meaning you are not towards the enlightenment yet. But when mind became peaceful, the peacefulness is beyond our imagination now. You can not imagine the peacefulness produced by Samatha practice. You can not imagine because our mind never had this experience, so you can not imagine now. So the peacefulness which comes from the Samatha practice can be attached by you again. So that's how we human gave names of 'Formless God Realm' and 'God Realm with Form' for these two classes (of beings). Why we gave the name God? We human always give higher name to any beings highly qualified than us, then we give the name God, isn't it? For God it has different views in Buddhist way--the name
God is still living being. So their is a realm far better and luckier than human, we call it 'God realm'. (People there) they are in meditation, the Samatha practice. How? I can explain.
You know samatha, now I tell you how it happens. You can start samatha simply by like breathing exercise, (keep) your mind focusing on your breath, then you try to keep the focusing without any interruptions. Not so easy at the beginning time, but when you do many many times, then it became more easy more easy, then later it will be more spontaneous. As soon as it becomes spontaneous then you will not focus on any object, like breath or anything, and you will keep the mind in peace and will go naturally, which means no thought, no disturbance there. Keeping mind in peace, when it became more nature and you will like it, then you will enjoy it, then you will sit in there for hours and hours, then the peaceful mind will grow bigger and bigger, then it affects physically also-- feeling very light, comfortable and very healthy. these will happen. This peaceful mind is called 'thoughtless'. There's no thought, no thinking. Of course you can think if you want, but you can naturally be in the peace. That peacefulness is actually, yes, the nature of mind. But not yet you are in complete realization, you just attach to the peaceful feeling of the mind. Actually this peacefulness is originally (from) the peace in the mind, not just artificially created. Your mind will become very peaceful and that peace can grow. Of course mind itself is limitless. Mind has no limit-- distance wise(you can not say) this much is mind (or) depth wise this much can go to the mind, there is no such thing. Mind is sizeless, limitless, it's very profound. So now you entered into it's peaceful matter only. So then you stuck on that, that peacefulness will keep grow, grow, grow. Then there are two different steps you can go in the deep, deep (area) of the peace. One is with the concept of the peace, the joyful peace, one (is when) even that concept is gone. Very much the peace became deeper, you have no concept of the peace. (If) one has the concept of the peace, it has some merit because no emotion is there--not negative emotions, and you are very harmless, yourself is enjoying in the peacefulness of mind. So there is some merit, (but) there is no Buddhisattva power, there is no wisdom power. Wisdom means going into the mind nature for the enlightenment. No, nothing, just you stick on the peacefulness of the mind, so some merit there but very limited. The profound cause of Samsara is not eliminated yet, you just stuck on the peacefulness of mind and the growing so much. So, still there some attachment and subconsciously you have 'self' there, 'ego' is there.
But this is one who is just following the result of samatha only. Not looking for how to be enlightened from the samatha practice, just stuck on the samatha, very easily (stay in) enjoying. Persons who have some concept of the peacefulness of mind, when they die, directly their mind is in the peacefulness of the mind, they will not go in Bardo stage--and (of course) some merit is (required?there, one merit may be at beginning time you have good motivations, and another merit is (maybe) you are quite well trained under control of the negative emotions. So that merit (of the samatha which is lacking of the Buddhisattva power gives you lucky form, very very lucky form in the lucky realm, but your mind is only in the meditation. So there is a realm called "Beings in meditation", in meditation only. Now they don't have to do the meditation, their mind is in the peace. This type of beings can live for millions of years--the long life is also given by the merits, but then (still) limited. After long, long time, the life will end. At that time, unfortunately, whatever karma they have, the strongest one will come, will ripen. The 'self' is there, is not eliminated. So they still have the source of illusion. So karma is still kept in there, can be ripen again. So they can return from that wonderful life.
There are two different kinds, as I said, (but) not so important. One (kind is), the meditator who has not the concept of physical form when they die, they will not have any form, their mind will just go into that peacefulness of mind, that's all and stay in that; (the other is that) some has vision of form. They are in two different realms. So the meditators, if not so careful, if not well-informed about the meditation, you can mistakenly go there, go into that meditation.
So that's (the case of practicing) only samatha. But for Mahamudra you need samatha to tame your mind and (until) your mind is free from distraction, free from the confusion--confused by thoughts, then you can develop Mahamudra. On good samatha then Mahamudra, that's the short cut. In the Theravadayana, they do a lot of samatha and vipasyana. But the samatha practice does not contribute so much merits in Theravadayana way. Just focus on breath, focus on some object, then you develop samatha power, on top of that then you do vipasyana, then you can be enlightened--(this way) the merit is less. In Vajrayana, (to practice) like the Avalokisteshavara Sadhana, the samatha is there plus other contributions like, as I told you, the cause of Nirmanakaya is there, Buddhisattva power is there, a lot of contributions there at the same time, so the method is more rich, more powerful.
So this is the basic view of Mahamudra Meditation. When you do, as I said, follow the sadhana practice, and after that you do Mahamudra meditation, of course it has to be directed by a good teacher; of course you need a good teacher, a teacher who is an expert in this teaching, a teacher who hold the lineage. The lineage means, OK, Buddha was two thousand years before, but let's say, we are more direct to Milarepa, Milarepa's teacher is Marpa, Marpa's teacher is Narapa and Matripa, and their teacher goes up to Saraha and then all the way up to Buddha. The importance is, the lineage is a fresh experience, the experience of the Buddha, given to the followers. The followers followed properly then they attained the same experience, the same experience that Buddha had, and that experience (from) unbroken lineage is reliable, it is proved to you, the teacher can not make mistakes. If somebody is an author who knows how to write book very well and got a lot of opinions-- his own opinions of like how to do meditation, and if he writes books (about that), there is no proof because himself should be enlightened first. If just opinions, then how can you follow? isn't it? Instead you are just damage your mind. So for meditation, you must not follow any creative ideas, it's very dangerous for your mind.
(Among) the Buddhist schools in Tibet, for the scholars writing Buddhist philosophy, first the scholars were trained in such such universities and then became very famous because all the exams passed very well, and were proved there as a good scholar. When he wrote books, philosophical books, whatever the scholar wrote people follow and study, (but if for) meditation (subject) then they don't follow. They still don't trust (them) and they only read the books written by (people) like Gampopa. We have one school called Kadampa. Kadampa school, later modified by Tsongkapa, became Gelupa. Tsongkapa organized (it in) more university way, so people study a lot--on so much subjects, but then they don't do much meditation as the early time Kadampa did. Kadampa school started in Tibet by Atishia. I think you know Atishia is a very very famous Buddhist teacher in India, invited by Tibetan and rest of his life he spent in Tibet, he taught here. This is Kadampa. And the early time Kadampa teacher's writing as far as concerning meditation, they follow that, they trust on that . As far as concerning the philosophy, then later after Tsongkapa, whatever the scholars wrote, they follow that. Scholars are very stubborn because they are very learned. If a yogi kind of meditator now a days writes a book on meditation, they don't read it. Whatever written by Marpa, Milarepa, Gampopa then the Gelupa scholars read it. When they want to meditate then they follow that, they trust on that. They don't trust somebody (who just) made a nice poem about his experience of Mahamudra or Mahaati, they really don't trust it so much. They read the early books, like those Gampopa wrote, Marpa (wrote) and Milarepa's song. All the Gelupa scholars, the scholars who want to do meditation, they memorized Milarepa's song. There are two kinds of scholar in Gelupa. One (kind of) scholar is not very serious in meditation, some (other) scholars are very serious in meditation then they always read Milarepa's books. The Gelupa scholars can read Milarepa's books better than we Kagyupas, they memorized (them).
I have to say, now a days, American is the country (where) any religion can be very popular. a lot of new religions are growing, and many people like to follow a simple one. Whoever says something easy (to follow) then they like to follow it. This causes lots of problems. It caused so much problems in Japan. A very big problem happened there with religion recently. I think you know that. A Buddhist religious teacher called Ashahara, he gave a lot of teaching and he has a lot of followers. Later on I don't know what happened to him then now the government arrested him because he sent his disciples to bury bombs and explore them. He said, that is 'Phowa'--you should be liberated by quick death or something like that. It caused a lot of problem just sometime ago. He said that's the 'Phowa'. So (it is) easy to follow as when he said it is 'Phowa'. This is a sinful body, you should give it up, but giving up by quick method is dying, or committing suicide, thus (they) emphasize on committing suicide, and to help the other beings by exploring bombs and killing them. And one day Tokyo was so busy, everywhere police, because the bombs explored in the train and many things happened. It's known in Asia.
OK, now, I think today the information that I am presenting to you is much enough. If you individually has any doubts or any questions, I am happy to explain to you.
This article is transcribed from the recording of a lecture given by the Rinpoche. In the interest of preserving the essence and style of the lecture, we have striven to retain unaltered original spoken form. Most of the sentences are transcribed verbatim if their meaning are clear. The insertions in parenthesis are made by the editor to enhance readability. Transcribed by Cybele Yang
Q: (Translated) This lady says she has practice of many meditations and she now get to a stage she is very sensitive to other people's disease so when she sit in front of some other people, and immediately known where is wrong with other people and when the get hot some ache, headache, for example, she got headache, if he got some stomach problems and she feel like vomit. So in this way, give her a lot of bothering. So, she can not get along with other people and she also know some mantra before, but that does not help her so far.
A: If the disease in contagious, mentally you can not get other's disease. You can not take other's disease to you by your mind. You can not. It will not be transferred to you at all. Probably you must have a very good motivation to solve others disease but than some kind of certain type of concepts has been develop that you can take it. When you concern about others pain, then maybe you can absorb it or something like that created. And that effected to your mind and then kind of nervous break down. So now you fell it. But logically can not be, because, by your concept, you can not take others disease by mind. You can not take others disease, as I said, unless it is contagious. So you should forget the concept first. Deep the good heart, good motivation for concerning others. Keep that, but drop the concept that you may get it.
Q:(cont.') I won't. Somebody, stranger, pass by me. I don't even know him, I don't even care about him, but as soon as he pass by me, I just can not breathe.
A: Yeah, as I said, you became sensitive develop some sensitive by that concept then it bothers you. So try to forget as much as you can.
Q: After we complete Mahamudra practice, what would be the stage?
Q: He brought a meditation book and he follow that to practice for six months without teacher. Now he has some result with the body, when de meditate, the body will shake either front and back or left and right, sometimes turning. He wants to know if this is right or not?
A: If you do so much concentration, then at the beginning time you will feel like that, your body shaking or turning, like that, then you should know how to relax your mind, if you just read books and do meditation is delicate. Should don't do that. Instructions, teacher a qualified teacher is very important. That's also very real now of days. A qualified teacher gives you instruction, then you read book as he recommended then book and teacher together is very stable reliable.
Q: For people live in God realm, we say they have long life, then they will come back his questions is, why they can not practice Buddhism, like Chant Buddha's name over there? Why Buddha can not teach them to do that over there?
A: Buddha can be everywhere. Buddha's manifestation can be everywhere when your cause is enough to receive Buddha to meet Buddha, Buddha is everywhere then became Buddha. Buddhisattva is one accumulated lots, lots of good deeds for sentient beings, and when the Buddisattva achieved all his wishes he made for sentient beings then the sentient beings should receive whatever the Buddisattva dedicated. Then from the sentient beings, if the cause is not enough, you can not meet Buddha, you can not receive Buddha's help by their own Karma is broken. This type of God realm whatever you don't start the opinion about God, God, in Christianity god, God is the great but now here in Buddhism term, 'God' is something else, there are living beings, in one way, there are in their peaceful meditation there are lucky but otherwise, unlucky, isn't? Because they don't find the enlightenment. So cause is not there, and for some, yes, the receiving Buddha's help, and some enlightening from that realm also, that is existing. Some like we human, some type of human can be enlighten, some not. This is by your own Karma.
Q: We mention in Buddhism there is Hell realm. So in Hell realm there are many punishment like you are in the hot oil pot. Is there hot oil pot, etc. just a illusion or physically you have to take it?
A: Well, in the Buddhist civilization, there are two. One, in order, anther one is real. so , in order is, then, in order to control people to go into the negative actions for the unlogical people, those people who does not follow the logic or education or anything, In order to control their wildly go into negative activities, then they explain such a Hell realm and hot pot. Then people afraid of it, then they don't do all kind of wild things. But other one, hell realm means yes, suffering is really exist in the illusion. Once the suffering realm happen until the cause finish, the realm would not end. Equally some like we are in human realm now. Not completely happy, some suffering is there also, all the time, we either physically not happy or mentally not happy, generally there is no happiness is the mind, in human realm. But no completely suffer. A mixed one, OK, why not can have the entirely suffer? why not can have the entirely happiness? why not? The mixed one is existing equally happiness and sufferings. It is existing can existing in the illusion of human beings.
Q: Are those illusions also start by Karma?
A: Karma, Yes. As well as this illusion is caused by Karma. Another one is also can, will cause by Karma. Right now we have earth, and we are human and we have animals, that's all what we can see in this earth, and beings either human or animals existing to us. This is our illusion caused by Karma. Same, another thing can happen in your illusion.
Q: Rinpoche just said 'two kinds'?
A: Yes, in the way, we operate, in order to control people, wild, obey killing each other, and they do all kind of things when in the early time, when they describe about hell people don't know what hell means, and they just artificially made hot pot.
Q: But the other side is real?
A: Yes, real. Real suffering living beings can exist. Being in the burning is existing. For instance, coral, the alive coral can not run away, because root is in the ground. But they are alive, fish go there and eat it, but they can not escape from that, piece by piece when it's life time, but then again it grows to feed others, it grows itself, then again it will be eaten by the other animals, painful, you can see they don't like it, they try to avoid it, but can't. It's a suffering, isn't it? If they don't have the feeling, then why they don't accept it. But they try to avoid, but they can not run away because root is there unluckily, unfortunately, isn't it suffering life? isn't it by Karma.